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Chess World Online Chess Forum - Alekhines defence

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  Play ... Latest Forum Posts > Chess Forums > Chess Openings
  Alekhines defence

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doctork

Chess rating: 2868
LCF 2024




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United States
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Thu Oct 13 2011 9:09AM | MsgID: 14806752


Good references Mooseter (Davies, Cox). There is also a new one out by Tim Taylor, not bad, and older classics but with many lines that are understandably dated.

It's rather a misstatement to say (as I saw elsewhere in this thread) that 2.e5 "refutes" the Alekhine. Fischer played it twice against Spassky in world championship play with a plus score, the highest rated player in the world Magnus Carlsen has made it a specialty, the list of great players who have played the Alekhine also includes Korchnoi, Larsen and many other grandmasters. But it is difficult and frustrating sometimes, and I would never encourage young players to play it, when they can play the solid 1...e5 or the sharp 1...c5.



NL2

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England
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Mon Oct 10 2011 12:38AM | MsgID: 14797507


Can't believe I have failed to comment on this thread before now.

I played Alekhine's exclusively otb for several years and had a great deal of fun with it. So long as you don't mind occasionally getting caught in a horrible trap, usually by a better player who has a pet line, then it is as good as any other opening against 1.e4.

The practical bonus is that White nearly always takes much more time on the clock than you do, and frequently chickens out at an early stage to avoid the main lines. Anything other than 2.e5 leaves Black several ways ot get a good or better game.

White's best line is not the 4 Pawns Attack, which is exactly the kind of line that an Alekhine's player wants, but instead:

1. e4 Nf6
2. e5 Nd5
3. d4 d6
4. Nf3 Bg4
5. O-O
when Black has a choice of 5...c6 (my preference) or 5...e6.
The former allows the threat of ...Bxf3 and when white plays Bxf3 the b7 pawn is not at risk, but if White plays c4 at the right time the Nd5 is pushed back to a passive square - b6 or c7
5...e6 gives the Nd5 a better retreat to e7, but is less dynamic and doesn't allow Black to challenge the pawn on e5 so well.

Eventually all my club colleagues and many league players got to know about my enthusiasm for Alekhine's so it lost its impact and they all had tricky lines against it, so I gave it up



biohuman

Chess rating: 2090





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Australia
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Wed Apr 14 2010 11:44AM | MsgID: 12968942


Thanks AstroKnight, Your post was informative my last post was not directed at you it was directed at the EarNorlk.



biohuman

Chess rating: 2090





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Australia
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Wed Apr 14 2010 11:35AM | MsgID: 12968909


Yes I have read your post in reply to me wanting to stimulate discussion on the Alekhines defence. I have since then started to play in an Alekhine theme tournament.I will probable lose,I am the lowest rated player in the tournament and yes I am not as strong as you at chess,I am still a reasonably intelligent person who enjoys there chess and is keen to improve. Regards biohuman



AstroKnight

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Thu Jul 30 2009 6:46AM | edited: 7:04:24 | MsgID: 11765098


Originally posted by: "Baroque Knight"
I believe that the opening response is refuted by white's next move which is P-K5. Thus forcing black to make a second move of the Knight, delaying 'tempi' the principle of developing your pieces quickly. Black has only two real choices: returning to it's home square or N-Q4. If N-Q4 white should respond with P-QB4 thus forcing white to move the knight again! Rather than talk about it why don't we play next time Agathos!




If 1...Nf6 is refuted, then why would Fischer adopt it (twice) against Spassky in their World Championship match in 1972? Why does Magnus Carlsen play it?

[Event "Wch Blitz"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2007.11.21"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Shirov, Alexei"]
[Black "Carlsen, Magnus"]
[Result "0-1"]
[PlyCount "100"]
[EventDate "2007.??.??"]

[[1. e4 Nf6 2. e5 Nd5 3. d4 d6 4. Nf3 dxe5 5. Nxe5 c6 6. Bc4 Nd7 7. Nf3 N7f6 8. h3 Bf5 9. O-O e6 10. Bg5 Be7 11. Nbd2 h6 12. Bxf6 Nxf6 13. c3 O-O 14. Bb3 c5 15. Bc2 Bxc2 16. Qxc2 Rc8 17. Qb3 Qc7 18. Rfe1 Rfd8 19. Rad1 cxd4 20. Nxd4 Bc5 21. N2f3 Rd5 22. c4 Rd7 23. Nb5 Qb6 24. Re2 Rxd1+ 25. Qxd1 Bxf2+ 26. Rxf2 Ne4 27. Qd4 Qxd4 28. Nfxd4 Nxf2 29. Kxf2 Rxc4 30. b3 Rc5 31. Nxa7 Ra5 32. Nc8 Rxa2+ 33. Kg3 Rb2 34. Kf4 Rxg2 35. Nd6 Rd2 36. Ke3 Rh2 37. Nxb7 Rxh3+ 38. Ke2 e5 39. Nf3 e4 40. Nd2 f5 41. b4 f4 42. Nd6 Rh2+ 43. Ke1 e3 44. Nf3 Rb2 45. b5 g5 46. Ne5 h5 47. Nd3 Rb3 48. Nc5 Rb1+ 49. Ke2 h4 50. Ne6 h3 0-1]]

The latest results show that against 1.e4 Black is winning 35.0% of his games with 1...c5, and 34.3% with 1...Nf6. The statistical difference is not all that significant, particularly when you consider the 1...Nf6 player is probably more often outrated than the 1...c5 player. There is nothing about Alekhine's Defense that is second class.

Finally, here is Black's main line response to the Four Pawns Attack. It poses Black few problems and that's why White looks elsewhere for an advantage these days:

[[1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Nd5 3.d4 d6 4.c4 Nb6 5.f4 dxe5 6.fxe5 Nc6 7.Be3 Bf5 8.Nc3 e6 9.Nf3 Bg4 10.Be2 Bxf3 11.gxf3 Qh4+ 12.Bf2 Qf4 13.c5 Nd7 14.Qc1 Qxc1+ 15.Rxc1 O-O-O 16.f4 Be7 17.Rg1 Rhg8 18.a3 Nf8 19.Ne4 Ng6 20.Rg4 h5 21.Rxg6 fxg6 22.Bc4 Kd7 23.Rd1 Rgf8 24.Be3 Bh4+ 25.Ke2 Ne7 26.Rg1 g5 27.Rxg5 Bxg5 28.Nxg5 Nd5 29.Kf3 Rf5 30.h4 Rdf8 31.Nh3 b6 32.b4 bxc5 33.dxc5 Rxe5 34.c6+ Kxc6 35.Bc5 Rf7 36.Bxa7 Ref5 37.Be3 Rf8 0-1]] Van der Tuuk, Jaap - Looijmans, Karel, Keres mem op, Utrecht (5) 1999

Playable game scores in this posting
Playable game #1


Playable game #2






Moosester

Chess rating: 2396



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Canada
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Wed Jul 8 2009 4:12PM | edited: 4:14:29 | MsgID: 11655465


Originally posted by: "armstrong789"
GM Tony Miles completely rehabilitated Alekhines Defence with his innovative 4.Nf3 de5 5.Ne5 c6!? however the Four Pawns Attack still has teeth and creates many problemes for black. A good game worth studying is: Novak/Havas, Pula 2000.




Funny, the Miles variation is sneered at by a number of strong Alekhine's Def. players as being too "Caro-Kann like."

In the four pawns attack I play a line in otb chess that runs some 15-20+ moves deep. I figure anybody who knows it well enough to get the slight edge the books suggest for White deserves to beat me!

Serious opening aficionados should check out the forums on chesspub.com (that part is free); it is mainly for opening fanatics who wish to share and discuss home analysis of opening trends.

No bubble being busted, I think, we seem to be off on a discussion of the Alekhine's Def.



Earl of Norfolk

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United States
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Tue Jul 7 2009 6:37PM | MsgID: 11650917


Hate to burst everyone's bubble, but when "requests" like this to discuss openings, which go only deep enough to give the opening its name, occur, it usually just means that the starter of the thread clicked on something accidentally while looking up something else. Chances are he'll never look at this thread, nor even be aware that he inadvertently created it.



armstrong789

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Tue Jul 7 2009 3:41PM | MsgID: 11650133


GM Tony Miles completely rehabilitated Alekhines Defence with his innovative 4.Nf3 de5 5.Ne5 c6!? however the Four Pawns Attack still has teeth and creates many problemes for black. A good game worth studying is: Novak/Havas, Pula 2000.



Moosester

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Canada
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Tue Jul 7 2009 5:36AM | MsgID: 11648076


One move each is too early to get the feel for an opening. I suggest that to study the Alekhine's Defence you pick up a book or look over some games on the net. A good book is "Starting Out: Alekhine's Defence" by Cox. Older, but still a strong tome is Nigel Davies' "Alekhine's Defence."

The problem arises at present in that Black can play a number of different variations starting with 1. e4 Nf6 2. Nc3/Bc4/e5, etc. Each can take the game into a completely different direction.

The good news is that few top players play in regularly so most opponents will know very little about it, having focused their time on more topical openings. Thus, a little bit of knowledge and study should take you a long way!



Baroque Knight

Chess rating: 1967



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England
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Mon Jul 6 2009 9:59PM | MsgID: 11646627


I believe that the opening response is refuted by white's next move which is P-K5. Thus forcing black to make a second move of the Knight, delaying 'tempi' the principle of developing your pieces quickly. Black has only two real choices: returning to it's home square or N-Q4. If N-Q4 white should respond with P-QB4 thus forcing white to move the knight again! Rather than talk about it why don't we play next time Agathos!



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