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Chess World Online Chess Forum - Reti opening

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  Play ... Latest Forum Posts > Chess Forums > Chess Openings
  Reti opening

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luenix

Chess rating: 2478





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United States
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Fri Feb 28 2014 10:27AM | MsgID: 17226492


Originally posted by: "Bladezii"
I am a Reti player and an expert. I also play the English and the queen's pawn games or gambit.

Regardless of what Goggle says, and all Google is just a search engine for websites and content, the Reti requires a certain criteria to be a Reti.

The first move IS NOT the critical move to determine the name of the opening.

The positions is EVERYTHING that matters in order to know what opening it is you are putting the whole game through.

For example :

1.Nf3 Nc6
2.e4 e5

We are now, thanks to the position, in a king pawn game, with 3.Bb5 here, we should be in the Ruy Lopez. There is NO RETI here.

1. Nf3 Nf6 is nothing yet.
2. c4 c5

We are in the English opening.

1.Nf3 Nf6
2.c4 e6
3.b2 d5

Now we are in the Reti.


1.Nf3 d5
2. c4

We are in the Reti BUT it does not mean we cannot transpose to something else. But this is a Reti starting position, one of them.




Well spoken! What you said really parallels what I have learned on this site since I posted last April.



Bladezii

Chess rating: 2792 Fide 2170



 Topics started


United States
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Wed Feb 26 2014 8:10PM | MsgID: 17222869


I am a Reti player and an expert. I also play the English and the queen's pawn games or gambit.

Regardless of what Goggle says, and all Google is just a search engine for websites and content, the Reti requires a certain criteria to be a Reti.

The first move IS NOT the critical move to determine the name of the opening.

The positions is EVERYTHING that matters in order to know what opening it is you are putting the whole game through.

For example :

1.Nf3 Nc6
2.e4 e5

We are now, thanks to the position, in a king pawn game, with 3.Bb5 here, we should be in the Ruy Lopez. There is NO RETI here.

1. Nf3 Nf6 is nothing yet.
2. c4 c5

We are in the English opening.

1.Nf3 Nf6
2.c4 e6
3.b2 d5

Now we are in the Reti.


1.Nf3 d5
2. c4

We are in the Reti BUT it does not mean we cannot transpose to something else. But this is a Reti starting position, one of them.



Nebukadnezar

Chess rating: 2547

 Topics started


Germany
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Fri Apr 19 2013 8:10AM | edited: 8:13:19 | MsgID: 16411910


Not easy to explain, but I'll try:
An opening/line/variant is a group of initial moves, they are recognized sequences referred to as openings. The Oxford Companion to Chess lists 1340 named openings and variants cataloged in a reference work such as the Encyclopedia of Chess Openings (ECO) and referred to as "the book moves".

See the list of chess openings:
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/List_of_chess_openings

As a matter of fact many of the openings mentioned in this list may arise via move transpositions. Only a so-called crucial move fixing once and for all the characteristic of the opening is decisive for the denomination and the ranking in the nomenclature.

For example, after the following move order: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 the classification is unambiguous. It's a Kings' Gambit and all ensuing lines and variants are suborders of this opening. However after 1.Nf3 Nf6 there may arise several main openings like the ones I already mentioned in a previous post. So it doesn't make sense to classify this move order following the list I mentioned above. Most openings turn into so-called Defenses after Black's reply, because it is mostly Black who decides of the main classification. See:
After Whites' 1.e4 we get after Blacks'
1...e5 an open game but no clear opening yet
1...e6 a French type
1...c5 a Sicilian type
1...g6/d6 a Pirc/Robatsch type
1...Nf6 an Alhekine type
1...d5 a Scandinavian type
But after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 you still can't classify this move order as the Petrov because after 3.Nc3 Nc6 we reach the 4 Knights Game, and after Whites 4.Bb5 we reach the 4 knights Game Spanish variation or after Whites' 4.d4 the 4 Knights Scotch variation. And there are quite a bunch of different move transpositions before. So the denomination of 1.e4 e5 Nf3 Nf6 as the Petrov Defense can't be but preliminary and only after Whites' 3.Nxe5 (the crucial move!)we definitely reach the Petrov.

Hope it helps
nebu



luenix

Chess rating: 2478





 Topics started


United States
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Wed Apr 17 2013 9:06PM | MsgID: 16408569


-.-;;

Is there a proper way of learning solid openings if any various series of moves in the first 6-8 half-moves can greatly change what the actual lines are?

I'm new to chess theory in general, so I only really know basic formations... names are really lost on me thus far.



Nebukadnezar

Chess rating: 2547

 Topics started


Germany
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Wed Apr 17 2013 2:38PM | edited: 2:51:49 | MsgID: 16407755


Indeed you may call 1.Nf3 what you like. And even after 1.Nf3 Nf6 you may call it:
QGA
QGD
Catalan
Benoni
Kings Indian
Nimzo Indian
Queens Indian
and perhaps you may reach a
Reti, but as the Earl already stated, only after Whites' 2. or 3.c4. And only if Black answers with d5. All the above mentioned openings and lines can be reached after 1.Nf3 Nf6. The nomenclature or International Code (ECO)is clear without ambiguity. But only after a predefined move order. When you play a game here on Chessworld you may realize that the denominations of the openings are constantly changing until a unique position is reached being characteristic for the unambiguous denomination of an opening/line/variation.



Earl of Norfolk

Chess rating: 2511





 Topics started


United States
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Chess goodies: 59
Wed Apr 17 2013 1:38PM | edited: 1:39:33 | MsgID: 16407648


The original poster obviously just clicked on a few random buttons and didn't realise what the result would be. Since he hasn't logged in since, my assumption is that he never had any intention of starting a discussion of this opening.

But, while we're at it: 1.Nf3 without 2.c4 is basically just a kind of waiting move to see how his opponent replies. It usually transposes into some form of a Queen's Pawn opening, often the Catalan. If it is truly a Reti opening, then c4 would be played either on the second move or shortly thereafter, and one or both Bishops would be developed on their respective long diagonals (fianchetto).

It is true, however, that the move 1.Nf3 got its name from Johannes Zukertort, who played it often (mostly in friendly games) back in the 1870s and 80s. Reti's name didn't become attached to it until the 1920s, when he promoted its use, almost always with his 2nd move being 2.c4.

As for Chessworld calling it one name or the other, I've noticed that several openings are misnamed on this site. So ... call it what you will.



luenix

Chess rating: 2478





 Topics started


United States
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Wed Apr 17 2013 5:37AM | MsgID: 16406935


Someone's wrong then :P



Lekoandsvidler

Chess rating: 1993





 Topics started


United States
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Wed Apr 17 2013 3:42AM | MsgID: 16406848


A little googling shows that the Zukertort opening is just 1. Nf3.



luenix

Chess rating: 2478





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United States
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Tue Apr 16 2013 7:39PM | MsgID: 16405871


A little googling shows that the Reti opening is just 1. Nf3.



catsparrow

Chess rating: 1710



 Topics started


United Kingdom
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Tue Apr 16 2013 7:07PM | MsgID: 16405781


A valid start to the discussion I think. Beg to differ Nebukadnezar, but opening #3693 is classed as Reti and begins 1. Nf3 Nf6.

I myself tend to think of the Reti as 1. Nf3 d5 2. c4, but I'm trying out 1. ... Nf6 for a bit of a change.

I guess we aren't talking of transposing to English with 2. c4 (there's no option to return to Reti as far as I can see), or to Indian with 2. d4, though both respectable alternatives. I may be mistaken but it looks like a fianchetto, a d3, or the daring b4.

...Must look into that last one...





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