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Chess World Online Chess Forum - Move 19 ... Rd8 -- draw --

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  Play ... Latest Forum Posts > Chess Game Forums - Rest of World matches > Play the expert - WGM Julia Galianina-Ryjanova
  Move 19 ... Rd8 -- draw --some analysis on 19...c5 and others

Dibbellabbes



 Topics started


Germany
Wed Aug 20 2003 6:41AM | MsgID: 181068


Hi Bro. Rick, Günter and Team,

Yes, 22… c5 is much better.

But somehow I share the feeling with Bro. Rick. This position isn’t as harmless as it seems to be without a deeper look. White is threatening to break through and set up a crushing checkmate attack. There might be a carbon plan to do so.

Best regards
Dibbellabbes




Bro. Rick



 Topics started


United States
Wed Aug 20 2003 12:18AM | edited: 1:56:43 | MsgID: 180902


Hi Dibbellabbes & Gunter & Team,
Nice line, Dib. Here's what I just analyzed on your strong 20.f4 move if we play 19...Rd8.

20.f4 Bxe2 [if 20...c5 21.Qa3 (21.Nb5 cxb4 22.Nxc7 Bxc7 23.Bxh5 Nd6 24.f3 Bxa5 25.Bg4=) 21...Bxe2 22.Nxe2 Bh8 23.e5 e6= hard to believe this is even]

21.Nxe2 Bh8 [21...c5=]
22.f5 Nd6= if 22...c5 23.Qd2 Nd6 24.Bf4 Rac8 25.f3 Qd7 26.Kf2 Qa4=
if 22...cxd5? loses 23.Nf4 Bg7

(23...Qd6? Loses 24.Qb3+- Wins 24...Qe5 a)24...e6? 25.fxe6+- fxe6 26.Nxd5 exd5 (a)26...Qe5 27.Rf3+- Re8 (a)27...Qxe4+ 28.Kf1+-) 28.Nc7+-) 27.Rxd5 Qxd5 28.exd5+-; b)24...Qc6; 25.Nxd5+- e6 26.fxe6 fxe6 27.Rf3+- Dibbellabbes)

24.Nxd5 Rxd5 25.Rxd5 Bxh6 26.Rc3 Qxh2 27.Rd8+ Kg7 28.Qd4+ Wins 28...f6 29.Qd5+- Bg5 30.fxg6 Qh1+ 31.Ke2 Qh5+ 32.Rf3 Kxg6 33.a6]

23.Bf4 [23.fxg6 hxg6 24.Bf4=]
23...c5=

I just don't believe in some of these = evaluations. White seems very close to breaking through on the kingside on some of them. I think 19...c5 is our better move.


MORE (edited)
Hi gmueller & Team, just looked at gmuller's post. His 25.Bg5 completely busts the (19...c5 with 23...e6 variation). The try 25...Qc6 doesn't work either. I'm trying to justify the 19...c5 variation by improving our 23 move. 23...a6 doesn't work, 23...b5 doesn't work, but maybe 23.c4 does!

20.Qa3 Rd8 21.f4 Bxe2 22.Nxe2 Bh8 23.e5 c4

Looks like 23...e6 loses to gmueller's 25.Bg5 and we can't improve our 26th move (26... does't work)

[23...e6 24.d6 (24.Kf1 exd5 25.Rc3 c4 26.Rxd5 Ne7 27.Rxd8+ Qxd8 28.Nd4 b5 29.Qc5 Qd7) 24...Nxd6 (24...Qc6 25.b4 c4 26.Nd4 Qh1+ 27.Ke2 Qxh2 28.Bg5 Qh5+ 29.Nf3+-) 25.Bg5 (25.exd6 Rxd6 26.Rc1 Rd5 27.f5 (27.Kf1 Rad8=) 27...Rxf5=) 25...f6 26.exd6 Rxd6 27.Bh6 Rad8 28.Rgd3 Rxd3 29.Rxd3 Rxd3 30.Qxd3 Qxa5+ 31.Kf1 Qc7 32.f5 gxf5 33.Bf4 Qe7 34.Nc3 Bg7 35.Nb5 b6 gmueller; 23...b5 24.b4 c4 25.Qf3]

24.b3 b5 25.bxc4 bxc4 26.Kf1 Rb8 27.Qa4 Qc5 28.Nc3 a6=

Will the 23...c4 move work. If not, we might have to play 19...Rd8.
What about 23...c4, gmueller? horndog?, you seem uncharacteristically quiet (smile)







gmueller

 Topics started


Germany
Tue Aug 19 2003 10:33PM | edited: 12:02:39 | MsgID: 180810


Dibbellabbes wrote:
Hi Team,

Please be careful with 19… Rd8. To me this move looks extremely dangerous for Black at first sight, e.g.

19… Rd8 20.f4 Bxe2 21.Nxe2 Bh8 22.f5
22...cxd5? 23.Nf4 Qd6 24.Qb3 Qe5 25.Nxd5 e6 26.fxe6 fxe6 27.Rf3
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dibbellabbes
What about 22...c5 I hope now you without troubles

[[1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 0-0 7.e4 Bg4 8.Be3 Nfd7 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Qb3 Nb6 11.d5 Ne5 12.Be2 Nxf3+ 13.gxf3 Bh5 14.Rg1 Qd7 15.Rg3 c6 16.a4 Qc7 17.a5 Nc8 18.Qb4 Be5 19.Bh6 Rd8 20.f4 Bxe2 21.Nxe2 Bh8 22.f5 c5 23.Qd2 Nd6 24.Bf4 Bg7 25.Kf1 Qd7 26.Qc2 Qb5 27.fxg6 fxg6 28.Rb3 Qa4 29.Rc3 Qxe4 30.Qxe4 Nxe4 31.Rc4 Nf6 32.Rxc5]] ==

and here my look at 19...c5
[[1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 0-0 7.e4 Bg4 8.Be3 Nfd7 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Qb3 Nb6 11.d5 Ne5 12.Be2 Nxf3+ 13.gxf3 Bh5 14.Rg1 Qd7 15.Rg3 c6 16.a4 Qc7 17.a5 Nc8 18.Qb4 Be5 19.Bh6 c5 20.Qa3 Rd8 21.f4 Bxe2 22.Nxe2 Bh8 23.e5 e6 24.d6 Nxd6 25.Bg5 f6 26.exd6 Rxd6 27.Bh6 Rad8 28.Rgd3 Rxd3 29.Rxd3 Rxd3 30.Qxd3 Qxa5+ 31.Kf1 Qc7 32.f5 gxf5 33.Bf4 Qe7 34.Nc3 Bg7 35.Nb5 b6 ]] +=


MfG
Günter



Playable game scores in this posting
Playable game #1


Playable game #2






Dibbellabbes



 Topics started


Germany
Tue Aug 19 2003 8:47PM | MsgID: 180709


Hi Team,

Please be careful with 19… Rd8. To me this move looks extremely dangerous for Black at first sight, e.g.

19… Rd8 20.f4 Bxe2 21.Nxe2 Bh8 22.f5 cxd5 23.Nf4 Qd6 24.Qb3 Qe5 25.Nxd5 e6 26.fxe6 fxe6 27.Rf3

and White has a winning position. There might be some improvements but it is absolutely necessary to analyse 19… Rd8 very accurately before voting it. I think Bro. Rick’s 19… c5 is safer.

Best regards
Dibbellabbes




Bro. Rick



 Topics started


United States
Tue Aug 19 2003 1:31AM | MsgID: 179903


Hi Team, I agree 19...Rd8 looks drawish as I think Julia will take the repetition; I say this because of her last move of 19.Bh6, which I don't think was best. But let's take a very close look at 19...c5. I've given some basic ideas below. Certainly the = marks are not even positions; at a very high ply I'm sure some of these positions favor someone, most probably White, but, let's take a good look. We've got some time.

19...c5

[19...Bxg3? 20.hxg3 Re8 (20...Rd8 21.dxc6 Rxd1+ (21...bxc6 22.Rxd8+ Qxd8 23.g4+-) 22.Nxd1 bxc6 23.Qc3 e5 24.g4+-) 21.Qd4 f6 22.g4+- Bro. Rick]

[19...Rd8 20.Qc5 Bd6 21.Qd4 Be5 22.Qc5 Bd6 (22...Rb8 23.Rg2 (23.Kf1=) 23...Bd6 24.Qd4= Bro. Rick) 23.Qd4 Be5 24.Qc5= gmueller]

[19...Bd6 20.Qa4 Rd8= Bro. Rick]

[19...Re8 20.f4 Bxe2 21.Nxe2 +/=]

20.Qa3 [20.Qa4 Rd8 21.f4 Bxe2 22.Nxe2 Bxb2 23.e5 b5 24.axb6 Qb7 25.Qc6 Qxc6 26.dxc6 Rxd1+ 27.Kxd1 Nxb6 28.Rd3 c4 29.Rd2 c3 30.Rd3 e6 31.Nxc3 Bxc3 32.Rxc3= Bro. Rick]

20...Rd8
21.f4 Bxe2
22.Nxe2 [22.Kxe2 Bxf4 23.Bxf4 Qxf4 24.Qxc5 Nd6=]
22...Bh8
23.e5 e6
24.d6 [24.Kf1 exd5 25.Rc3 c4 26.Rxd5 Ne7 27.Rxd8+ Qxd8 28.Nd4 b5 29.Qc5 Qd7 =/+] 24...Nxd6
25.exd6 Rxd6
26.Rc1 Rd5 [26...Rad8 27.f5 (27.Bg5 f6 28.Bh6 Qd7 29.Kf1 Rd1+ 30.Kg2 Qd5+ 31.Qf3 Rd2 32.Nc3 Qxf3+ 33.Rxf3 f5±) 27...Qc6 +/=]

27.Kf1 Rad8
28.Rg5 [28.f5 Qc6 29.Rf3 exf5 30.Qb3 Bf6=]
28...Rd1+
29.Rxd1 Rxd1+
30.Kg2 Qc6+
31.Kh3 b6
32.axb6 axb6
33.f5 Bf6
34.fxg6 hxg6 [34...Bxg5 35.gxf7+ Kxf7 36.Bxg5 +/=]
35.Rg4= Bro. Rick





gmueller

 Topics started


Germany
Mon Aug 18 2003 9:20PM | edited: 10:25:15 | MsgID: 179533


Hi team
After our 18...Be5! we have what we said before:

Yulia - RoW [D99]

[[ 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 d5 4.Nf3 Bg7 5.Qb3 dxc4 6.Qxc4 0-0 7.e4 Bg4 8.Be3 Nfd7 9.Rd1 Nc6 10.Qb3 Nb6 11.d5 Ne5 12.Be2 Nxf3+ 13.gxf3 Bh5 14.Rg1 Qd7 15.Rg3 c6 16.a4 Qc7 17.a5 Nc8 18.Qb4 Be5 19.Bh6 Rd8 20.Qc5 Bd6 21.Qd4 Be5 22.Qc5 Rb8 23.Rg2 Bd6 24.Qd4 Be5 25.Qc5 Bd6 26.Qd4 Be5 27.Qc5 ]]Threefold repetition ½-½

MfG
Günter

------------------------------------------------------------------
r1n2rk1/ppq1pp1p/2p3pB/P2Pb2b/1Q2P3/2N2PR1/1P2BP1P/3RK3 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Shredder 7.04:

19...Rd8 20.Qc5 Bd6 21.Qd4 Be5 22.Qc5 Bd6 23.Qd4 Be5 24.Qc5 Bd6
= (0.00) Depth: 14/38 00:11:36 31897kN
------------------------------------------------------------------



Playable game scores in this posting
Playable game #1