mrlimbo
 
|  6/7/2009 7:11:36 PM | MsgID: 11498418
Well i dont think its ideal (black wins a draw), but it is the best method considering the alternatives and there are no other better options , so its the right choice.
plus i play much better as black 
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mjgayle52
| 6/7/2009 4:11:16 PM | MsgID: 11497479
White does not have a statistical advantage. Not in a knockout tournament and esp not in the last round, where it is more likely the players are equally matched. Statistical proof follows....
Let's take 1 e4, according to chessgames.com
-- white wins 37.4%
-- draws 33.7%
-- black wins 28.9%
looks like white wins vs black wins is a big advantage to white, but white "must win" and black need only draw (draw odds). flipping the stats to black probably winning the tourney to 62.6% vs 37.4% for white (who must win to win).
is this a big deal, don't know, but i still kind of like the idea of the last round being two games...and if you split you split and share the prize...stopping there.
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antolie
| 6/7/2009 1:14:30 PM | edited:6/7/2009 1:29:46 PM | MsgID: 11496630
[Quote from: "kingscrusher"][Quote from: "antolie"]Is it a idea to change the fact that black wins a KO final with a draw..
I think you get better final games with a must win for both colors... in event of a draw there wil be another game in fast mode ( 1 day a move) with different color..
This isn't(afcourse)for the earlier rounds, only the final..
antolie
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Sorry disagree with this assessment. As well as the possibility of really dragging out things if it was 1-1 after the two games in parallel, I think the current system if I say so myself is very good.
White statistically is doing much better in terms of result because of the 1st move advantage, so black is at a natural disadvantage.
The current system also encourages more exciting fighting games for White to try and win in the final round of a knockout. In fact, we might not be collecting the advantages of the current model as much as we could - there might be a lot of games to potentially annotate, or video annotate, or put into collections because of the current system where White is essentially encouraged to go out for a win. |
ok you are working on the classic few that white has the advantage i disagree with that in almost every opening there are forced draws..
mind you that i won a few KO's by drawing against 2700 and 2800 players just by playing the book.. and in space of the time that a KO goes on it all depends of the players.. I don't think that a annotatad draw helps every one. I think both players has to be encouraged to go for the win you will get better games.
sorry for my English..
Antolie
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Abacus
| 6/7/2009 12:53:34 PM | MsgID: 11496528
Doowron, if you were Black (therefore at a slight disadvantage from move 1), and you drew with a stronger opponent, why do you feel you didn't do enough to deserve the title? In my opinion you clearly did deserve it much more than your opponent. Some sort of a tiebreak would have increased the odds in his favour, as he is more likely to win the more games are played.
Also what happens if the two-game final ends 1-1? How will you break the tie? What would be the point of dragging it out until a win determines the title? And why should that rationale only apply to the final? Why should black be able to advance with a draw in the semi-final?
I think the current system is fine, White has to win and there are very few players who can draw on demand with Black against a stronger player (even if only marginally so).
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Doowron
| 6/7/2009 12:20:31 PM | MsgID: 11496392
Mj is right a two match final would be the only way to justify it. I won a knock out by taking the advantage of the draw through a repeated three move and I was black. My opponent was a strong player. I only partially thought I deserved it. However, also what is the point of a knock-out tournament?
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mjgayle52
| 6/5/2009 4:29:21 PM | MsgID: 11487313
I'm with you that there seems to be the hint of a problem here. As in "draw odds" are pretty big odds esp. with stonger players. I am not however thinking of an easy fix that does not extend the time of the tournament. The only thought i have at the moment is to play the last round of a knockout as two games (one with each color). A split value then is just that co-winners.
all the best
Mike G
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antolie
| 6/5/2009 4:03:57 PM | edited:6/5/2009 4:05:20 PM | MsgID: 11487215
Is it a idea to change the fact that black wins a KO final with a draw..
I think you get better final games with a must win for both colors... in event of a draw there wil be another game in fast mode ( 1 day a move) with different color..
This isn't(afcourse)for the earlier rounds, only the final..
antolie
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